Let’s talk about personal experiences with the police.

D: My interactions with cops have been pretty benign. The typical speeding pullovers, more often than not resulting in a ticket. I’ve always felt that the objective of suburban cops is to give out tickets to pay for their departments. That was my complaint, that speed traps would be set up to generate revenue, which, as I say this, I recognize how isolated and oblivious my community has been to the issues we have witnessed and are witnessing now with police. That said, there has been a growing feeling that you don’t screw with the cops. If I get pulled over now I do pay attention not to look suspicious, to keep my hands visible and just say as little as possible. Ten years ago, I would complain about being pulled over. When I was a kid riding in my dad’s car, if he got pulled over, chances were he knew the cop and what would follow would be a ten minute catch up on family. The cop would let my dad go with a “Be careful, Gene” or “Get that tail light fixed.”

I recognize how things have changed and depending what situation you are in, your perspective on the police changes. I did feel more secure in NYC right after 9/11 because of the anti-terrorism policies. I had the opinion that the violence and killing of Blacks was a result of a few bad apples, but in doing research and simply paying attention I now believe there as been systematic prejudice against people of color. The role and personality of the police department has changed. When I was a kid, at least in my neighborhood the perception of the local cop was he was an extension of your parents; someone who looked out for you. That’s not the perception now. I read about how Black moms and dads tell their kids how to behave around police, how to fear them. I’ve come to the conclusion we need to not only rethink the role of police in our world, but who we attract to the force and why.

H: My encounters have also been limited to traffic violations and I never felt that there was the potential for things to escalate. However I do recognize that each time that it has happened I was with my family and my presence is less threatening with the wife and kids in the car. I have seen people getting straight up tossed on the sidewalk by the anti-crime cops. Prior to that I was in a situation where I was sitting in the park catching up with friends during my freshman year in college on summer break. Apparently the park “closed” at dusk and the police ran up on us with guns all stooped down. My friends started to scatter, but I got everyone to relax. I told them why would we run. We haven’t committed any crime by sitting here. So the park police ran up and started asking us questions about why we were there. I asked why they had their guns drawn. They said there was a lot of drug activity in the area. As we were talking one of the cops recognized me from high school. Being a local track star and a decent guy paid off tremendously that day. 

D: I recognize that split second decisions can determine whether a tragedy happens on either side. When I was in my 20’s in Boston I lived in what they called a “neighborhood in transition.” Translation: a run down area of brownstones that was just at the very beginning of gentrification. The kind of neighborhood where the liquor store had a bullet proof plexiglass partition protecting the cashier. I was standing outside a sandwich/fried chicken shop waiting for my takeout. A police car, lights flashing, siren screaming flies right up in front of me and screeches to a halt. The two cops jump out with guns drawn on me. For that second I thought don’t move, don’t speak, whatever you do don’t move your hands from your pockets. As quick as the cops appeared, they got back in the car. Apparently they were looking for some skinny white kid who had done something and they recognized it wasn’t me. I think we fail to realize there are war zones out there but not all areas are war zones. I think time and time again we see that when you meet force with force it escalates. The solutions to a complex problem (racism, economic opportunity, support of vulnerable populations) aren’t quick or easy. But this current path is not sustainable.

H: I guess this would be the perfect time to tell the story about when my landlord’s son and nephews decided to rob a check cashing spot in Brooklyn. Here’s where it gets complicated. The landlord’s fiancé is also a cop.

So, one cold morning in maybe November my wife and I are both home working. My wife looked out of the window and saw that the house was being descended upon by cop cars from all directions. She decided to go upstairs to ask the neighbors what was going on. I wasn’t paying attention. I was designing something and she calls and asks me to come downstairs. So, I get up and walk into the hallway and at the bottom of the stairs was my wife and an entire police department in helmets, vests, with semi-automatic rifles pointed at me. It was a little like the scene from the Blues Brothers when the cops catch up to Jake and Elwood paying the taxes downtown. 

So they ask me if anyone else is in the apartment and they ask to check it. So they go up and search it and then go upstairs to our neighbor’s apartment. She has a three year old and a five year old up there watching TV. They search them too. But they make us all go outside with no shoes in the cold without coats. 

We’re all like WTF? Why is there an entire police department and I mean everybody, detectives etc at our house.  The landlords fiancé pulls us aside and tells us her son and nephews attempted to rob a check cashing spot in East New York owned by a retired cop. Shots were fired and her stupid son drove directly home, tou our building, after the botched job. He was now nowhere to be found and the woman’s fiancé was a cop too so they’re trying to get him to tell them where Cliff is. 

It was intense. 

Howard and David are two friends talking (and listening).

We’ll see where the conversation takes us.